1 00:00:11,910 --> 00:00:09,110 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 2 00:00:23,210 --> 00:00:11,920 from Australia for science and reason 3 00:00:26,130 --> 00:00:23,220 [Music] 4 00:00:29,730 --> 00:00:26,140 yes it's the skeptic zone podcast 5 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:29,740 episode number 533 for the 6th of 6 00:00:35,850 --> 00:00:33,370 January 2019 richardsaunders here with 7 00:00:38,820 --> 00:00:35,860 you from the San Francisco Bay Area and 8 00:00:41,160 --> 00:00:38,830 what a great start to 2019 it has been 9 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:41,170 especially in the cold crispy weather 10 00:00:46,260 --> 00:00:43,570 that I love I think there's lots of rain 11 00:00:48,290 --> 00:00:46,270 forecast I'm glad I'm here at the moment 12 00:00:51,330 --> 00:00:48,300 because in Sydney Australia it's a 13 00:00:54,750 --> 00:00:51,340 understand heatwave conditions followed 14 00:00:56,460 --> 00:00:54,760 by heavy thunderstorms maybe I should 15 00:00:58,439 --> 00:00:56,470 work for The Weather Channel coming up 16 00:00:59,070 --> 00:00:58,449 on this week's show here in San 17 00:01:03,000 --> 00:00:59,080 Francisco 18 00:01:04,890 --> 00:01:03,010 I joined mark Edward J Dimon and susan 19 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:04,900 gerbic who was from guerrilla skepticism 20 00:01:10,380 --> 00:01:07,570 on Wikipedia and we head to the 21 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:10,390 Exploratorium now we've been there 22 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:12,370 before a couple of years ago but it's 23 00:01:16,620 --> 00:01:14,170 always great to go back especially with 24 00:01:18,719 --> 00:01:16,630 some skeptics and afterwards I chat to 25 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:18,729 susan gerbic about what it's like to be 26 00:01:24,860 --> 00:01:21,090 an editor for guerrilla skepticism on 27 00:01:28,260 --> 00:01:24,870 wikipedia more about wikipedia coming up 28 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:28,270 after that life is wild with michele 29 00:01:37,020 --> 00:01:32,410 Franklin with an unusual story of an emu 30 00:01:41,610 --> 00:01:37,030 invasion yeah emus what happens when 31 00:01:43,950 --> 00:01:41,620 people tried to control emus and then we 32 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:43,960 head to Wikimedia the headquarters of 33 00:01:48,420 --> 00:01:46,450 Wikipedia here in San Francisco I get a 34 00:01:50,820 --> 00:01:48,430 little tool with Mario shoot Lander a 35 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:50,830 friend of mine who I met many years ago 36 00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:54,010 who over 10 years ago when she had 37 00:01:59,420 --> 00:01:56,770 demonstrated some science by whacking a 38 00:02:02,120 --> 00:01:59,430 cream pie in my face hmm 39 00:02:04,830 --> 00:02:02,130 my shoes on the skeptics owned only 40 00:02:07,950 --> 00:02:04,840 about a year back talking about the Flat 41 00:02:10,649 --> 00:02:07,960 Earth anyway she brings us up to date on 42 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:10,659 the Flat Earth is it still flat probably 43 00:02:16,140 --> 00:02:13,050 not and we get a little tour of 44 00:02:19,740 --> 00:02:16,150 Wikimedia then to round off the show a 45 00:02:22,589 --> 00:02:19,750 story from Jane Hansen is read by the 46 00:02:25,020 --> 00:02:22,599 diet skeptic Mandy lee noble about a 47 00:02:27,809 --> 00:02:25,030 naturopath who's under investigation for 48 00:02:32,970 --> 00:02:27,819 what seems to be pretty dodgy advice 49 00:02:34,530 --> 00:02:32,980 regarding cancer and breastfeeding well 50 00:02:37,530 --> 00:02:34,540 here we go another 51 00:02:40,319 --> 00:02:37,540 year of the skeptic zone another year 52 00:02:44,309 --> 00:02:40,329 hmm I think I'm gonna run upstairs and 53 00:02:46,170 --> 00:02:44,319 have myself some linguine Delmar 54 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:46,180 actually had some the other night it was 55 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:48,250 pretty good well I do that I hope you 56 00:02:58,680 --> 00:02:51,410 enjoy the skeptic zone 57 00:03:11,520 --> 00:02:58,690 [Music] 58 00:03:13,770 --> 00:03:11,530 it's an out sort of a day here in San 59 00:03:17,940 --> 00:03:13,780 Francisco back in Australia it's already 60 00:03:21,210 --> 00:03:17,950 2019 here however it's still 2018 it's 61 00:03:23,970 --> 00:03:21,220 one of those quirks of the timeline the 62 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:23,980 date line the International Dateline I'm 63 00:03:27,539 --> 00:03:25,690 walking up from the Ferry Building here 64 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:27,549 in San Francisco heading towards the 65 00:03:32,759 --> 00:03:30,970 Exploratorium and we've been there 66 00:03:34,259 --> 00:03:32,769 before the skeptics town has been to the 67 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:34,269 Exploratorium before where we did some 68 00:03:39,330 --> 00:03:37,810 reports but not with susan gerbic from 69 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:39,340 guerrilla skepticism who I just bumped 70 00:03:45,270 --> 00:03:42,370 into in the street at random hello he 71 00:03:48,300 --> 00:03:45,280 did not bump into me on the street be 72 00:03:50,789 --> 00:03:48,310 skeptical people be skeptical Susan's oh 73 00:03:52,619 --> 00:03:50,799 hello we've got somebody with some 74 00:03:58,140 --> 00:03:52,629 groovy music coming up behind us we with 75 00:04:01,830 --> 00:03:58,150 Mark Edward and Jay Diamond hi guys and 76 00:04:05,140 --> 00:04:01,840 it's it's nippy today it's it's a little 77 00:04:07,700 --> 00:04:05,150 bit um risk 78 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:07,710 he's a happy guy just walk past us for 79 00:04:11,990 --> 00:04:09,930 this is music and it's a lovely clear 80 00:04:13,910 --> 00:04:12,000 day here in San Francisco we're walking 81 00:04:16,009 --> 00:04:13,920 up to the Exploratorium I've been here 82 00:04:18,259 --> 00:04:16,019 before as I said but it's more fun when 83 00:04:20,180 --> 00:04:18,269 you go with people and you can play 84 00:04:25,100 --> 00:04:20,190 silly games science games with each 85 00:04:26,780 --> 00:04:25,110 other the sights and sounds of San 86 00:04:29,570 --> 00:04:26,790 Francisco it looks like a lot of the 87 00:04:33,860 --> 00:04:29,580 South American people maybe Oh banging 88 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:33,870 their drums and walking bus not sure why 89 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:40,840 eyeing 2018 and yes they were yeah 90 00:04:48,860 --> 00:04:44,130 that's very colorful and interesting and 91 00:04:51,410 --> 00:04:48,870 I had these smoking things and we're 92 00:04:54,350 --> 00:04:51,420 nearly at the Exploratorium this quite a 93 00:04:59,170 --> 00:04:54,360 lot of people walking up and down along 94 00:05:09,379 --> 00:05:03,219 enclosed by white touch okay here's our 95 00:05:13,290 --> 00:05:11,520 the entrance is around that way but if 96 00:05:14,850 --> 00:05:13,300 we go through this way not only is it 97 00:05:18,749 --> 00:05:14,860 warm but we can walk through the gift 98 00:05:20,100 --> 00:05:18,759 shop to figure this out all the main 99 00:05:23,310 --> 00:05:20,110 entrance I know we're on the right side 100 00:05:25,409 --> 00:05:23,320 we'll find it we'll find it this is a 101 00:05:29,249 --> 00:05:25,419 good gift shop now I've got no kickback 102 00:05:31,469 --> 00:05:29,259 here I'm not doing any anything special 103 00:05:35,490 --> 00:05:31,479 everyone loves great science gifts right 104 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:35,500 and this gift shop you probably will buy 105 00:05:40,529 --> 00:05:37,930 something I always buy something in that 106 00:05:43,740 --> 00:05:40,539 gift shop let's let's let's do that the 107 00:05:46,830 --> 00:05:43,750 ticketing it's around this way and walk 108 00:05:48,300 --> 00:05:46,840 around here look at that yeah we can see 109 00:05:50,100 --> 00:05:48,310 through the giant glass doors here all 110 00:05:53,100 --> 00:05:50,110 sorts of things happening and we're 111 00:05:54,050 --> 00:05:53,110 walking up to near where the tickets are 112 00:05:58,800 --> 00:05:54,060 okay 113 00:06:00,360 --> 00:05:58,810 we've already struck the first the video 114 00:06:05,940 --> 00:06:00,370 if we have to figure out how the lockers 115 00:06:12,630 --> 00:06:07,520 [Music] 116 00:06:18,810 --> 00:06:12,640 what you're doing nothing oh I see this 117 00:06:23,550 --> 00:06:18,820 musical notes on them Marquez defeat it 118 00:06:26,559 --> 00:06:23,560 only took us an hour and we I just 119 00:06:37,359 --> 00:06:26,569 compose that locker 120 00:06:41,859 --> 00:06:37,369 Oh Richard I really like to think of you 121 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:41,869 as the Beethoven of Locker 21st century 122 00:06:46,419 --> 00:06:45,050 music composition I am I am in fact the 123 00:06:48,459 --> 00:06:46,429 wall of luck that's what I didn't even 124 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:48,469 know that Susan I did not even that is 125 00:06:52,419 --> 00:06:50,330 super cool I saw the sign I'm not that 126 00:06:53,679 --> 00:06:52,429 clever now you get extra points for 127 00:06:55,149 --> 00:06:53,689 paying attain you know they say that 128 00:06:57,429 --> 00:06:55,159 your luck is better if you're the type 129 00:06:59,109 --> 00:06:57,439 of person who actually pays attention to 130 00:07:03,339 --> 00:06:59,119 things is that what Richard Wiseman told 131 00:07:05,170 --> 00:07:03,349 us in his book yeah the luck factor well 132 00:07:09,010 --> 00:07:05,180 lucky for us we're here why don't we 133 00:07:12,999 --> 00:07:09,020 dive right into the exhibits let's go 134 00:07:16,989 --> 00:07:13,009 into the shadow room here the shadow box 135 00:07:20,799 --> 00:07:16,999 it's called it's a very dark room and if 136 00:07:23,499 --> 00:07:20,809 we stand near the wall so stand near the 137 00:07:26,820 --> 00:07:23,509 wall and make a funny pose and in 23 138 00:07:29,499 --> 00:07:26,830 seconds a bright flash flashes and 139 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:29,509 preserves our shadows for a minute or 140 00:07:34,509 --> 00:07:33,050 two our shadow we can photograph that 141 00:07:40,550 --> 00:07:34,519 afternoon I guess so 142 00:07:45,379 --> 00:07:40,560 ten nine seven five or here comes 143 00:07:49,190 --> 00:07:45,389 oh that was bright there's our shadows 144 00:07:50,690 --> 00:07:49,200 look at that the system's making the 145 00:07:56,060 --> 00:07:50,700 victory sign and I've got my microphone 146 00:08:00,200 --> 00:07:56,070 in my hand and they're fading already 147 00:08:01,730 --> 00:08:00,210 you see that it's not often you can see 148 00:08:03,890 --> 00:08:01,740 your own shadow like that that's quite 149 00:08:06,020 --> 00:08:03,900 cool well lots of people here today I'm 150 00:08:08,690 --> 00:08:06,030 really pleased to see it the place is 151 00:08:09,770 --> 00:08:08,700 pretty so many children lots of children 152 00:08:14,330 --> 00:08:09,780 always a good thing 153 00:08:17,379 --> 00:08:14,340 and we're walking along this corridor a 154 00:08:21,129 --> 00:08:17,389 wide corridor and there are our excites 155 00:08:25,570 --> 00:08:21,139 guide games and toys and puzzles 156 00:08:32,149 --> 00:08:25,580 everywhere hello what's this metronome 157 00:08:33,500 --> 00:08:32,159 synchronization I think I've seen 158 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:33,510 something like that on Mythbusters where 159 00:08:38,269 --> 00:08:35,250 you will these metronomes you put the 160 00:08:43,060 --> 00:08:38,279 money have platforms suspended on 161 00:08:53,550 --> 00:08:49,150 and then they explode I don't know this 162 00:08:55,590 --> 00:08:53,560 is one of these strobe animation wheels 163 00:09:00,490 --> 00:08:55,600 Wow 164 00:09:03,129 --> 00:09:00,500 so it's Lego Batman and it's comes to 165 00:09:07,059 --> 00:09:03,139 life before our eyes were strobing hard 166 00:09:14,740 --> 00:09:07,069 to explain and the Penguins 167 00:09:25,980 --> 00:09:14,750 isn't that cool and the Riddler and 168 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:25,990 that's pretty cool that's great now 169 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:28,370 skeptic John listeners may well remember 170 00:09:32,470 --> 00:09:29,810 that the last time I was here at the 171 00:09:35,350 --> 00:09:32,480 Exploratorium I interviewed Paul Dodi he 172 00:09:38,129 --> 00:09:35,360 had a book out about crazy ways to die 173 00:09:40,930 --> 00:09:38,139 and scientific things to do with that I 174 00:09:43,749 --> 00:09:40,940 interviewed Paul wonderful man he showed 175 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:43,759 me all around and sadly about six months 176 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:46,730 later he died so I was very pleased to 177 00:09:50,290 --> 00:09:49,130 be able to come here and turn the view 178 00:09:52,870 --> 00:09:50,300 Paul Doherty and I'll link to that 179 00:09:56,850 --> 00:09:52,880 episode of the skeptic Zone in the show 180 00:09:59,470 --> 00:09:56,860 notes for this week as we enter a huge 181 00:10:02,530 --> 00:09:59,480 room towards the back here with what is 182 00:10:06,430 --> 00:10:02,540 that it's a prism of lights said like a 183 00:10:07,660 --> 00:10:06,440 giant cube it's an infinity cube no 184 00:10:13,079 --> 00:10:07,670 matter how you look into it it just 185 00:10:13,089 --> 00:10:18,830 it's like looking into another dimension 186 00:10:24,070 --> 00:10:21,920 is it giant sort of bubble sculpture 187 00:10:27,610 --> 00:10:24,080 hanging from the ceiling 188 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:27,620 multicolored it's extraordinary here and 189 00:10:33,580 --> 00:10:30,330 no matter how much I explained it what's 190 00:10:36,730 --> 00:10:33,590 going on and all the things to see 191 00:10:38,560 --> 00:10:36,740 you you can only get a guess you can 192 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:38,570 only guess at what it's really like here 193 00:10:43,690 --> 00:10:42,410 now Susan I'm going to take you over I'm 194 00:10:46,450 --> 00:10:43,700 going to take you over to an amazing 195 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:46,460 mirror illusion because when I see you 196 00:10:51,940 --> 00:10:48,050 last time with Paul Doherty this is the 197 00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:51,950 one that really really amazed me and it 198 00:10:58,570 --> 00:10:56,650 gives quite the incredible illusion 199 00:11:00,110 --> 00:10:58,580 closer we get 200 00:11:03,079 --> 00:11:00,120 [Music] 201 00:11:06,450 --> 00:11:03,089 if you look around the mirror you'll be 202 00:11:13,170 --> 00:11:08,640 you just have to get in the sweet spot 203 00:11:17,070 --> 00:11:13,180 and not only is it is it upside down oh 204 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:17,080 you are 3d its 3d and see what this man 205 00:11:19,980 --> 00:11:18,370 is doing he's reaching out and he's 206 00:11:22,020 --> 00:11:19,990 touching his own hand and reflection 207 00:11:26,670 --> 00:11:22,030 look at that oh [\h__\h] 208 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:26,680 oh wow it's staggering it's one of the 209 00:11:30,330 --> 00:11:28,450 best illusions and others me I can just 210 00:11:32,580 --> 00:11:30,340 see me over so it's like looking at 211 00:11:35,490 --> 00:11:32,590 yourself in reality but upside down as 212 00:11:37,740 --> 00:11:35,500 if you're hanging from the ceiling I've 213 00:11:41,370 --> 00:11:37,750 lost you sir oh there you are you're 214 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:41,380 there look so put out your hand keep 215 00:11:46,550 --> 00:11:42,210 going keep going 216 00:11:46,560 --> 00:11:52,170 that's weird isn't it this myth Scott 217 00:11:56,679 --> 00:11:54,429 Susan's reaching out and she's touching 218 00:11:58,600 --> 00:11:56,689 her own hand in reflection and her 219 00:12:03,999 --> 00:11:58,610 reflection is reaching back to touch 220 00:12:06,129 --> 00:12:04,009 your hand oh yeah isn't that something 221 00:12:07,689 --> 00:12:06,139 look how clear that is I can use that to 222 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:07,699 put my makeup on or something like that 223 00:12:13,560 --> 00:12:10,370 is so clear 224 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:13,570 jerry and now we're in the room of 225 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:17,330 reflections and there are thousand susan 226 00:12:22,110 --> 00:12:18,650 gerbic sand a thousand richardsaunders 227 00:12:25,630 --> 00:12:22,120 in here we're gonna get nauseous again 228 00:12:28,390 --> 00:12:25,640 we don't have yeah is that the way it 229 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:28,400 works now there are that there are 230 00:12:33,610 --> 00:12:30,530 thousands of people in here right so 231 00:12:36,850 --> 00:12:33,620 welcome to the the cone of silence at 232 00:12:38,290 --> 00:12:36,860 the world skeptic conference what this 233 00:12:42,010 --> 00:12:38,300 is where we do all of our conspiracies 234 00:12:43,180 --> 00:12:42,020 what I'm sorry I can't hear you what I 235 00:12:49,060 --> 00:12:43,190 said 236 00:12:50,700 --> 00:12:49,070 welcome to the cone of silence hello 237 00:13:02,260 --> 00:12:50,710 Susan 238 00:13:03,970 --> 00:13:02,270 I are sitting about or 20 meters from 239 00:13:07,540 --> 00:13:03,980 each other talking in our normal voices 240 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:07,550 and we can hear each other through these 241 00:13:16,990 --> 00:13:14,810 parabolic listening caves thanks Susan 242 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:17,000 now this is a strange one is called 243 00:13:21,970 --> 00:13:20,210 sound bite when you put a drinking straw 244 00:13:24,970 --> 00:13:21,980 disposable drinking store in a little 245 00:13:28,930 --> 00:13:24,980 metal rod and the metal rod is vibrating 246 00:13:30,790 --> 00:13:28,940 with the vibrations but when you bite 247 00:13:33,730 --> 00:13:30,800 down you can actually hear something 248 00:13:35,830 --> 00:13:33,740 through your teeth it's rap music is ahh 249 00:13:38,740 --> 00:13:35,840 and it's in that audience isn't it 250 00:13:47,379 --> 00:13:43,300 and yet there's yet more 251 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:47,389 interesting things lying ahead with lots 252 00:13:56,170 --> 00:13:53,569 of kids here vibrations sound well 253 00:13:58,269 --> 00:13:56,180 what's this this looks weird this is 254 00:14:01,610 --> 00:13:58,279 like something from Doctor Who reverse 255 00:14:12,230 --> 00:14:07,040 Oh so okay let me try to explain it this 256 00:14:14,060 --> 00:14:12,240 is like headphones speak to you from one 257 00:14:16,460 --> 00:14:14,070 side make sure they don't tell you what 258 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:16,470 that what side they're on try to decide 259 00:14:19,850 --> 00:14:18,210 what side your friend is on and what 260 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:19,860 then open your eyes were you right so 261 00:14:24,290 --> 00:14:23,490 I'm going to close my eyes I'll try it 262 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:24,300 on you first 263 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:25,970 so Susan's wearing a pair of headphones 264 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:29,850 attached to tubes and little inlets here 265 00:14:34,100 --> 00:14:32,370 for sound I'm going to speak in one one 266 00:14:37,710 --> 00:14:34,110 side and she's going to try and guess 267 00:14:43,140 --> 00:14:40,470 hello where am i speaking from she 268 00:14:45,810 --> 00:14:43,150 guessed so much for that all right I'm 269 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:45,820 gonna try these on hello Richard 270 00:15:00,269 --> 00:14:52,690 hello myself are you on the other side 271 00:15:11,129 --> 00:15:04,939 know what side of Milan try these ones 272 00:15:12,900 --> 00:15:11,139 physically try those make it look 273 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:12,910 fashionable embrace it a lot like I 274 00:15:17,670 --> 00:15:15,490 think we've shown accessorize what side 275 00:15:25,829 --> 00:15:17,680 he's outside am i speaking from your 276 00:15:29,100 --> 00:15:25,839 hear I hear you on this one I've seen on 277 00:15:31,710 --> 00:15:29,110 TV it's a um it's a sheet of metal with 278 00:15:46,110 --> 00:15:31,720 some sand on top and we get a thing like 279 00:15:47,999 --> 00:15:46,120 a violin bow the idea is of course the 280 00:15:53,699 --> 00:15:48,009 the sand is vibrating on the middle 281 00:15:58,350 --> 00:15:53,709 plate like my teeth I think I've just 282 00:16:04,920 --> 00:15:58,360 lost about 20% of my listeners 20% yes 283 00:16:06,869 --> 00:16:04,930 all three of them and of course you turn 284 00:16:09,329 --> 00:16:06,879 your back for one moment and half the 285 00:16:12,829 --> 00:16:09,339 party disappear but that's I think it's 286 00:16:14,329 --> 00:16:12,839 part of the magic of this place oh 287 00:16:17,639 --> 00:16:14,339 here's one 288 00:16:20,759 --> 00:16:17,649 did you look in the igloo then I didn't 289 00:16:22,470 --> 00:16:20,769 go in yet it's an igloo of light that 290 00:16:25,590 --> 00:16:22,480 sounds exciting yeah well it's just like 291 00:16:26,670 --> 00:16:25,600 in the far north it's yes well it's not 292 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:26,680 that exciting but it's interesting 293 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:28,930 nevertheless remember I'm from Canada so 294 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:30,610 you know in Canada it's all igloos and 295 00:16:35,340 --> 00:16:32,890 lights of course yes 296 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:35,350 we step into the igloo of light here 297 00:16:43,110 --> 00:16:39,730 ducking in the other side and we're in 298 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:43,120 it's like an igloo of light it is it's 299 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:46,810 an igloo made of light light okay with 300 00:16:53,610 --> 00:16:51,010 an exit here we go after lots and lots 301 00:16:55,890 --> 00:16:53,620 and lots of fun and lots of science we 302 00:16:58,980 --> 00:16:55,900 found ourselves in the cafeteria 303 00:17:00,630 --> 00:16:58,990 another root beer and fries I assume 304 00:17:04,170 --> 00:17:00,640 garlic what it's like to be an editor 305 00:17:06,900 --> 00:17:04,180 for guerrilla skepticism on Wikipedia 306 00:17:08,340 --> 00:17:06,910 well after you finish training you're 307 00:17:10,140 --> 00:17:08,350 let loose to do whatever you'd like to 308 00:17:12,090 --> 00:17:10,150 do but to get through training there's 309 00:17:13,860 --> 00:17:12,100 all a bunch of different kinds of edits 310 00:17:15,990 --> 00:17:13,870 that you have to make you have to learn 311 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:16,000 how to cite something you have to add a 312 00:17:19,500 --> 00:17:17,770 photo you have a lot of different things 313 00:17:21,180 --> 00:17:19,510 that are asked of you and then when 314 00:17:22,590 --> 00:17:21,190 you're finished which takes anywhere 315 00:17:23,940 --> 00:17:22,600 from two and a half to four months 316 00:17:27,990 --> 00:17:23,950 you're going to come out to be a 317 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:28,000 well-rounded really well-trained editor 318 00:17:31,650 --> 00:17:29,650 of Wikipedia far more than somebody 319 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:31,660 who's probably self trained on Wikipedia 320 00:17:36,030 --> 00:17:34,090 then you're able to do pretty much 321 00:17:38,340 --> 00:17:36,040 whatever you want we some people are 322 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:38,350 great at just handling vandalism some 323 00:17:42,630 --> 00:17:40,450 people like to improve pages with photos 324 00:17:44,340 --> 00:17:42,640 or adding citations some people like to 325 00:17:46,500 --> 00:17:44,350 create brand new pages and some people 326 00:17:49,010 --> 00:17:46,510 like to just rewrite pages there's so 327 00:17:52,020 --> 00:17:49,020 much you can do it's really up to you 328 00:17:54,650 --> 00:17:52,030 it's an obsession to some people one of 329 00:17:57,450 --> 00:17:54,660 my editors Aaliyah encore took wig from 330 00:17:59,280 --> 00:17:57,460 the Netherlands he's been he was an 331 00:18:01,860 --> 00:17:59,290 editor of Wikipedia for a quite a while 332 00:18:03,780 --> 00:18:01,870 before he joined the GSO Debu before he 333 00:18:06,120 --> 00:18:03,790 found out about us but he really missed 334 00:18:08,460 --> 00:18:06,130 the social aspects the ability to be 335 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:08,470 able to talk to people in some sort of 336 00:18:13,890 --> 00:18:10,450 chatting kind of function you know where 337 00:18:18,060 --> 00:18:13,900 you get instant feedback and when he 338 00:18:20,730 --> 00:18:18,070 joined us oh gosh maybe maybe six years 339 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:20,740 ago he just took to it like a duck and 340 00:18:26,820 --> 00:18:23,170 water and we just looked at his edits 341 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:26,830 the other day and he's written so many 342 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:28,570 wikipedia pages a lot of him in Dutch 343 00:18:32,970 --> 00:18:30,610 and and then translating image to 344 00:18:36,030 --> 00:18:32,980 English or English pages translated into 345 00:18:37,170 --> 00:18:36,040 Dutch and all of the pages he's created 346 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:37,180 and I think he's at a hundred and 347 00:18:41,610 --> 00:18:38,890 twenty-six pages he personally has 348 00:18:42,370 --> 00:18:41,620 created have just hit over 3.5 million 349 00:18:46,180 --> 00:18:42,380 page view 350 00:18:47,860 --> 00:18:46,190 just by himself plus he's been he's 351 00:18:49,510 --> 00:18:47,870 influenced others to write other pages 352 00:18:52,270 --> 00:18:49,520 and helped on other peoples pages as 353 00:18:58,299 --> 00:18:52,280 well our team is just creating I think 354 00:19:01,120 --> 00:18:58,309 our 770 a--the page we just launched and 355 00:19:04,210 --> 00:19:01,130 those pages have just hit thirty five 356 00:19:05,909 --> 00:19:04,220 point five million page views so we know 357 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:05,919 we're having impact and it's such a 358 00:19:15,660 --> 00:19:12,900 it's a very satisfying feeling to know 359 00:19:18,570 --> 00:19:15,670 that you've been able to get it really 360 00:19:20,220 --> 00:19:18,580 great information out there on Wikipedia 361 00:19:23,580 --> 00:19:20,230 where people are able to access it and 362 00:19:25,980 --> 00:19:23,590 learn from it I'm enthralled by the 363 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:25,990 world that we're in it's such a joy I 364 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:28,930 mean I really have no skills in the area 365 00:19:33,420 --> 00:19:31,810 that I am in I mean I'm not a scientist 366 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:33,430 I don't have a degree in any advanced 367 00:19:39,330 --> 00:19:36,010 degrees of any kind and I'm a trained 368 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:39,340 baby photographer so I can't believe I'm 369 00:19:45,380 --> 00:19:41,530 doing this but it somehow or other it 370 00:19:49,860 --> 00:19:47,850 and sadly time to leave the 371 00:19:52,260 --> 00:19:49,870 Exploratorium a big shout out and a 372 00:19:55,590 --> 00:19:52,270 thank you to Josh who is looking after 373 00:19:57,780 --> 00:19:55,600 us today and Jay what a wonderful place 374 00:20:03,600 --> 00:19:57,790 it is but there are worse ways to spend 375 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:03,610 a day a San Francisco Exploratorium is 376 00:20:11,330 --> 00:20:08,410 at here 15 and is open Tuesdays to 377 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:11,340 Sundays for more information visit 378 00:20:19,370 --> 00:20:14,530 Exploratorium dot edu or just follow the 379 00:20:41,210 --> 00:20:29,520 [Music] 380 00:20:44,980 --> 00:20:41,220 like watch your guide to quackery health 381 00:20:47,450 --> 00:20:44,990 fraud operated by Stephan Barratt MD 382 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:47,460 quack watch is now an international 383 00:20:52,340 --> 00:20:49,530 network of people who are concerned 384 00:20:55,850 --> 00:20:52,350 about health-related frauds myths fads 385 00:20:58,580 --> 00:20:55,860 fallacies and misconduct its primary 386 00:21:00,830 --> 00:20:58,590 focus is on quackery related information 387 00:21:05,330 --> 00:21:00,840 that is difficult or impossible to get 388 00:21:08,779 --> 00:21:05,340 elsewhere articles include quackery how 389 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:08,789 should it be defined how it sells 26 390 00:21:21,810 --> 00:21:11,730 ways to spot it Howard Homs cancer 391 00:21:21,820 --> 00:21:25,970 [Music] 392 00:21:39,360 --> 00:21:28,330 [Applause] 393 00:21:39,370 --> 00:21:53,700 life is wild with Michelle Franklin 394 00:21:59,140 --> 00:21:56,380 humans have a fairly poor track record 395 00:22:01,090 --> 00:21:59,150 of moving into wild territories setting 396 00:22:03,010 --> 00:22:01,100 up homes and then being surprised and 397 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:03,020 alarmed when animals show up in those 398 00:22:07,419 --> 00:22:05,690 homes not realizing the irony of the 399 00:22:10,120 --> 00:22:07,429 animals being equally surprised and 400 00:22:12,460 --> 00:22:10,130 alarmed for exactly the same reason this 401 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:12,470 situation can be exacerbated when we 402 00:22:18,340 --> 00:22:15,530 start to change the habitats take inland 403 00:22:20,290 --> 00:22:18,350 Australia for example it's hot and dry 404 00:22:22,690 --> 00:22:20,300 and generally pretty difficult to live 405 00:22:24,669 --> 00:22:22,700 in but when humans show up we drill 406 00:22:26,770 --> 00:22:24,679 bores we bring water to the surface and 407 00:22:29,770 --> 00:22:26,780 then we grow crops and we cut down trees 408 00:22:32,860 --> 00:22:29,780 and we let lots of grass grow basically 409 00:22:34,360 --> 00:22:32,870 making living conditions better so that 410 00:22:36,700 --> 00:22:34,370 we can use the land to make lots and 411 00:22:38,799 --> 00:22:36,710 lots of cows but cows aren't the only 412 00:22:40,510 --> 00:22:38,809 things that drink water and eat grass so 413 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:40,520 we accidentally start making lots of 414 00:22:46,030 --> 00:22:43,730 kangaroos and also rabbits and horses 415 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:46,040 and camels and pigs and you get the idea 416 00:22:50,980 --> 00:22:48,530 suddenly we have animals everywhere and 417 00:22:53,860 --> 00:22:50,990 then all the food is gone and it becomes 418 00:22:55,390 --> 00:22:53,870 a lot harder to make cows the way this 419 00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:55,400 is generally handled is through 420 00:22:59,260 --> 00:22:57,410 eradication programs for the invasive 421 00:23:01,060 --> 00:22:59,270 species and through culling for 422 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:01,070 population control of the native species 423 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:05,090 to some people this might seem harsh but 424 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:06,890 we need to remember that it's exactly 425 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:08,090 the same thing that we do in our own 426 00:23:13,150 --> 00:23:10,730 homes we build a nice little habitat 427 00:23:15,100 --> 00:23:13,160 that we like to live in we grow gardens 428 00:23:18,100 --> 00:23:15,110 full of plants that we like to look at 429 00:23:20,830 --> 00:23:18,110 and smell and eat and then the animals 430 00:23:23,290 --> 00:23:20,840 move in and we don't like that sure we 431 00:23:24,700 --> 00:23:23,300 like the birds and the lizards but not 432 00:23:26,950 --> 00:23:24,710 many people want to share their kitchen 433 00:23:30,070 --> 00:23:26,960 with ants and cockroaches or let the 434 00:23:32,590 --> 00:23:30,080 snails and slugs have their flowers so 435 00:23:34,870 --> 00:23:32,600 we routinely cull large numbers of both 436 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:34,880 native and non-native animals when they 437 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:38,450 enter our homes and our Gardens of 438 00:23:41,530 --> 00:23:39,890 course there are other ways that we can 439 00:23:44,230 --> 00:23:41,540 learn to live with the animals around us 440 00:23:46,030 --> 00:23:44,240 if we clean up our crumbs maybe the ants 441 00:23:47,710 --> 00:23:46,040 won't come inside and if we fence the 442 00:23:48,470 --> 00:23:47,720 gardens maybe the Kangaroos will stay 443 00:23:51,289 --> 00:23:48,480 out 444 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:51,299 but realistically we know that this only 445 00:23:55,490 --> 00:23:53,610 works for some of the time when it stops 446 00:23:57,710 --> 00:23:55,500 raining the ants will still come inside 447 00:23:59,360 --> 00:23:57,720 looking for food and water and if it 448 00:24:01,909 --> 00:23:59,370 rains too much they'll come in looking 449 00:24:03,950 --> 00:24:01,919 for high ground when the Kangaroos are 450 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:03,960 hungry enough no fence is going to keep 451 00:24:09,289 --> 00:24:07,410 them out so when our food supply and our 452 00:24:11,659 --> 00:24:09,299 livelihood depends on competing with 453 00:24:12,230 --> 00:24:11,669 animals that want our resources we fight 454 00:24:14,510 --> 00:24:12,240 back 455 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:14,520 sometimes with fences sometimes with 456 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:16,530 chemical weapons and sometimes with 457 00:24:22,130 --> 00:24:20,010 bullets but what do we do when the wild 458 00:24:25,340 --> 00:24:22,140 things turn up on mass to reclaim their 459 00:24:28,130 --> 00:24:25,350 land as usual I can't tell you what we 460 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:28,140 should do when large numbers of native 461 00:24:33,620 --> 00:24:30,450 animals want the same resources as us 462 00:24:35,780 --> 00:24:33,630 but I can tell you what we did do about 463 00:24:37,940 --> 00:24:35,790 75 years ago when it happened 464 00:24:40,340 --> 00:24:37,950 and I'll even go as far as to suggest 465 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:40,350 that this is not the answer don't try 466 00:24:45,260 --> 00:24:41,450 this at home 467 00:24:47,030 --> 00:24:45,270 so after World War one British and 468 00:24:48,860 --> 00:24:47,040 Australian soldiers were given land in 469 00:24:51,470 --> 00:24:48,870 Western Australia to live on and to grow 470 00:24:53,090 --> 00:24:51,480 crops they did this pretty well they 471 00:24:55,549 --> 00:24:53,100 irrigated the land they grew lots of 472 00:24:57,710 --> 00:24:55,559 wheat and most importantly they put 473 00:24:59,650 --> 00:24:57,720 water access points all around the place 474 00:25:01,299 --> 00:24:59,660 to generally make conditions pretty good 475 00:25:03,980 --> 00:25:01,309 - good 476 00:25:06,350 --> 00:25:03,990 Amyas normally live in the bush near the 477 00:25:08,450 --> 00:25:06,360 farmland and migrate away every year to 478 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:08,460 the coast but due to some terrible 479 00:25:14,270 --> 00:25:10,650 politics a drought and a depression 480 00:25:16,460 --> 00:25:14,280 wheat prices dropped so low that in 1932 481 00:25:18,350 --> 00:25:16,470 many farmers didn't even bother to 482 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:18,360 harvest their crops instead they just 483 00:25:23,390 --> 00:25:20,210 left them lying in the fields 484 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:23,400 now generally amis breed inland and then 485 00:25:27,289 --> 00:25:25,890 head to the coast afterwards but when 486 00:25:30,260 --> 00:25:27,299 roughly 20,000 487 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:30,270 EMU's stumbled across a massive supply 488 00:25:34,900 --> 00:25:32,730 of free food interspersed with free 489 00:25:38,780 --> 00:25:34,910 water and nice soft places to lay down 490 00:25:40,070 --> 00:25:38,790 happy days they decided to vacation in 491 00:25:42,590 --> 00:25:40,080 the wheat fields rather than at the 492 00:25:44,060 --> 00:25:42,600 beach of course the people who worked 493 00:25:45,860 --> 00:25:44,070 the land where the emus were having 494 00:25:47,180 --> 00:25:45,870 their impromptu vacation weren't too 495 00:25:50,150 --> 00:25:47,190 impressed with all these unwanted 496 00:25:51,890 --> 00:25:50,160 invaders busting down fences taking all 497 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:51,900 the resources and generally overstaying 498 00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:54,570 their welcome the ex-soldiers turned 499 00:25:58,909 --> 00:25:56,730 farmers tried to defend their crops and 500 00:26:01,490 --> 00:25:58,919 their livelihoods themselves but there 501 00:26:02,430 --> 00:26:01,500 were 20,000 hungry emus and they didn't 502 00:26:05,340 --> 00:26:02,440 stand a chance 503 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:05,350 so the farmers asked for help but they 504 00:26:09,270 --> 00:26:07,570 didn't ask an ecologist who might 505 00:26:10,470 --> 00:26:09,280 understand the situation and have some 506 00:26:13,670 --> 00:26:10,480 insights into how to manipulate 507 00:26:16,290 --> 00:26:13,680 resources or behaviors to improve it and 508 00:26:18,780 --> 00:26:16,300 they didn't ask a zoologist who might 509 00:26:21,330 --> 00:26:18,790 understand Emme biology or behavior and 510 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:21,340 have some insights on how to control or 511 00:26:25,890 --> 00:26:23,410 manage a large flock of birds that's in 512 00:26:27,780 --> 00:26:25,900 a place that it isn't wanted they didn't 513 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:27,790 even ask an animal control expert who 514 00:26:31,500 --> 00:26:29,290 might know something about how to kill 515 00:26:34,620 --> 00:26:31,510 large flightless yep flighty birds that 516 00:26:36,900 --> 00:26:34,630 don't want to leave instead they stuck 517 00:26:39,450 --> 00:26:36,910 within their own area of expertise which 518 00:26:40,620 --> 00:26:39,460 is fighting other humans they asked the 519 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:40,630 military for help 520 00:26:45,360 --> 00:26:42,850 failing to understand that emus neither 521 00:26:47,550 --> 00:26:45,370 flock like cows nor flee like people and 522 00:26:51,390 --> 00:26:47,560 fighting them is not the same thing as 523 00:26:55,110 --> 00:26:51,400 fighting humans this might sound like a 524 00:26:57,210 --> 00:26:55,120 joke but it's really not and this is 525 00:26:58,680 --> 00:26:57,220 what we do when we're confronted with a 526 00:27:00,060 --> 00:26:58,690 challenging situation and we're 527 00:27:03,330 --> 00:27:00,070 desperate and we're afraid we're going 528 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:03,340 to lose all of our food and those scary 529 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:07,450 invaders are coming we turn to what we 530 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:11,170 know and in 1932 what the farmers knew 531 00:27:17,940 --> 00:27:15,330 was war so we declared war on the emus 532 00:27:20,730 --> 00:27:17,950 now if you think amuse and nothing more 533 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:20,740 than large funny-looking chickens I want 534 00:27:24,540 --> 00:27:21,730 to clear that out right now 535 00:27:26,700 --> 00:27:24,550 they may have long skinny legs and tiny 536 00:27:29,370 --> 00:27:26,710 dumb wings and build goofy and fluffy 537 00:27:31,350 --> 00:27:29,380 but so were the dinosaurs and underneath 538 00:27:33,270 --> 00:27:31,360 all those feathers they pack one hell of 539 00:27:35,580 --> 00:27:33,280 a punch to the poor unsuspecting zoo 540 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:35,590 keeper on their first week of work who 541 00:27:39,420 --> 00:27:37,450 forgot to bring the rake that day and 542 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:39,430 was confronted by a horny EMU with no 543 00:27:43,890 --> 00:27:42,010 fear of humans not that I would know 544 00:27:47,430 --> 00:27:43,900 anything about that or harbor any 545 00:27:49,830 --> 00:27:47,440 unresolved feelings but that is where we 546 00:27:51,870 --> 00:27:49,840 were we decided that the best way to 547 00:27:53,550 --> 00:27:51,880 deal with an interrupted migration of 548 00:27:55,650 --> 00:27:53,560 our national emblem was to kill them 549 00:28:00,300 --> 00:27:55,660 with machine guns so that's what they 550 00:28:02,430 --> 00:28:00,310 tried to do emphasis on tried it turns 551 00:28:03,870 --> 00:28:02,440 out that when scared hungry animals are 552 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:03,880 suddenly attacked and they don't 553 00:28:09,120 --> 00:28:05,890 understand what's happening they run 554 00:28:12,060 --> 00:28:09,130 away but they don't run as a mob the way 555 00:28:14,910 --> 00:28:12,070 the people expected them to run they run 556 00:28:15,810 --> 00:28:14,920 like emus which means the flock splits 557 00:28:17,759 --> 00:28:15,820 up into small 558 00:28:20,430 --> 00:28:17,769 and every mob runs in a different 559 00:28:23,369 --> 00:28:20,440 direction that wasn't in the battle plan 560 00:28:25,049 --> 00:28:23,379 and neither was weapon failure but when 561 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:25,059 they were relying entirely on two 562 00:28:30,509 --> 00:28:27,850 machine guns against 20,000 emus with 563 00:28:32,820 --> 00:28:30,519 unorthodox retreat tactics they were 564 00:28:35,340 --> 00:28:32,830 destined for failure and the emus ran 565 00:28:37,469 --> 00:28:35,350 off and just ate some wheat a little bit 566 00:28:39,419 --> 00:28:37,479 further away they tried to improve their 567 00:28:40,830 --> 00:28:39,429 odds by making better weapons they 568 00:28:42,749 --> 00:28:40,840 mounted their guns on the back of a 569 00:28:45,090 --> 00:28:42,759 truck and drove around trying to shoot 570 00:28:46,979 --> 00:28:45,100 the emus at high speed but it turns out 571 00:28:48,419 --> 00:28:46,989 emus are actually better at running over 572 00:28:51,629 --> 00:28:48,429 rough ground than large trucks and 573 00:28:53,339 --> 00:28:51,639 shooting at them from a military truck 574 00:28:55,859 --> 00:28:53,349 that's bouncing around over rocks and 575 00:28:57,690 --> 00:28:55,869 hills is actually pretty hard it should 576 00:28:59,489 --> 00:28:57,700 be noted at this point that when the 577 00:29:01,799 --> 00:28:59,499 Australian military declared war on the 578 00:29:04,950 --> 00:29:01,809 emus it wasn't a decision that was 579 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:04,960 supported by all the people they made 580 00:29:09,239 --> 00:29:07,090 some very bad decisions killed some very 581 00:29:11,009 --> 00:29:09,249 confused Ami's and made themselves very 582 00:29:13,489 --> 00:29:11,019 unpopular with the general population 583 00:29:15,719 --> 00:29:13,499 who didn't want the emus killed and 584 00:29:17,359 --> 00:29:15,729 lucky for them that wasn't actually 585 00:29:20,310 --> 00:29:17,369 happening very much anyway 586 00:29:22,619 --> 00:29:20,320 at the end of the campaign they manage 587 00:29:25,460 --> 00:29:22,629 to kill roughly 5% of the invading Birds 588 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:25,470 but it cost them 10 rounds per kill and 589 00:29:30,629 --> 00:29:28,090 most of their dignity before the 590 00:29:33,359 --> 00:29:30,639 eventual surrender and the emus declared 591 00:29:35,879 --> 00:29:33,369 victory after that they gave up on the 592 00:29:38,159 --> 00:29:35,889 ME war and the surviving 95% of the 593 00:29:40,889 --> 00:29:38,169 local population hung around ate crops 594 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:40,899 and made more emus in later years 595 00:29:45,659 --> 00:29:43,210 bounties were introduced and EMU numbers 596 00:29:48,239 --> 00:29:45,669 were slowly reduced to more sustainable 597 00:29:50,089 --> 00:29:48,249 levels so that we could share the land 598 00:29:52,649 --> 00:29:50,099 without having to give up our crops 599 00:29:56,070 --> 00:29:52,659 these days we have a fairly uneasy truce 600 00:29:57,899 --> 00:29:56,080 in place amuse our protected species and 601 00:30:00,239 --> 00:29:57,909 with the help of some better fencing 602 00:30:02,549 --> 00:30:00,249 technology and by ensuring that there's 603 00:30:04,919 --> 00:30:02,559 enough land out there for the emus to 604 00:30:07,409 --> 00:30:04,929 get by without our wheat things are 605 00:30:09,060 --> 00:30:07,419 going fairly ok but we live in fear of 606 00:30:11,339 --> 00:30:09,070 the day that the emus look over the 607 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:11,349 fence and realize that the wheat really 608 00:30:15,220 --> 00:30:13,330 is greener on the other side and they 609 00:30:20,500 --> 00:30:15,230 might decide to just come take some 610 00:30:26,420 --> 00:30:23,660 the lesson that I take away from this is 611 00:30:29,150 --> 00:30:26,430 that when we mess with an ecosystem we 612 00:30:32,180 --> 00:30:29,160 can't always control what happens oh and 613 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:32,190 when ecology goes bad and listing the 614 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:33,810 military to declare war on nature 615 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:35,730 probably isn't going to make things any 616 00:30:51,950 --> 00:30:36,490 better 617 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:58,720 [Applause] 618 00:31:04,039 --> 00:31:00,379 hey Richard 619 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:04,049 oh hi Trish hi would you like a coffee 620 00:31:07,759 --> 00:31:05,490 yeah thanks what are you working on I'm 621 00:31:10,060 --> 00:31:07,769 trying to come up with a new promo to 622 00:31:13,519 --> 00:31:10,070 play on the sceptic zone who's it for 623 00:31:16,039 --> 00:31:13,529 good thinking Society in the UK you know 624 00:31:17,659 --> 00:31:16,049 the oh yeah I know them the guys who 625 00:31:19,789 --> 00:31:17,669 recently chased the homeopaths out of 626 00:31:21,710 --> 00:31:19,799 the UK public health system oh did they 627 00:31:22,909 --> 00:31:21,720 yeah they campaigned and lobbied 628 00:31:26,060 --> 00:31:22,919 government for a while and now you 629 00:31:27,379 --> 00:31:26,070 cannot get homeopathy on the NHS so they 630 00:31:29,389 --> 00:31:27,389 can now spend public money on health 631 00:31:31,759 --> 00:31:29,399 care that works Yeah right look I'll 632 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:31,769 mention that in the promo now their 633 00:31:38,180 --> 00:31:36,330 website is good thinking Society org and 634 00:31:40,639 --> 00:31:38,190 that website is a good resource for 635 00:31:42,139 --> 00:31:40,649 learning more about quackery thanks 636 00:31:47,060 --> 00:31:42,149 Trish that gives me something good to 637 00:32:03,690 --> 00:31:55,010 [Music] 638 00:32:06,180 --> 00:32:03,700 now we we're walking down third Street 639 00:32:08,190 --> 00:32:06,190 here in San Francisco what a great lunch 640 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:08,200 I just had with my old friend Mario 641 00:32:12,930 --> 00:32:10,930 shirt lender hello hello it's so great 642 00:32:15,030 --> 00:32:12,940 to have you here again thank you now 643 00:32:16,410 --> 00:32:15,040 skipping zone listeners and I'll link in 644 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:16,420 the show notes may well remember a 645 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:18,610 couple years back we had a chat to Mario 646 00:32:23,430 --> 00:32:21,610 about the flat earth that's right yes in 647 00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:23,440 your article you world your article your 648 00:32:27,750 --> 00:32:24,850 interview ended up in the skeptic 649 00:32:28,950 --> 00:32:27,760 magazine as as a featured article yeah 650 00:32:31,740 --> 00:32:28,960 that was a lot of fun 651 00:32:34,140 --> 00:32:31,750 and thank you for giving me the 652 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:34,150 opportunity to be an A flat publication 653 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:37,890 not a published author well so to speak 654 00:32:43,260 --> 00:32:40,090 well what's the latest on the Flat Earth 655 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:43,270 surely it's all gone away now and it was 656 00:32:47,669 --> 00:32:44,890 a big joke and nobody believes it 657 00:32:52,410 --> 00:32:47,679 anymore it was a big fat joke flat round 658 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:52,420 joke no if only yeah I mean it died down 659 00:32:56,700 --> 00:32:55,210 a little bit and then it keeps coming in 660 00:32:59,760 --> 00:32:56,710 waves it depends usually it's when 661 00:33:02,549 --> 00:32:59,770 someone famous decides to challenge the 662 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:02,559 institution and you know say that the 663 00:33:05,669 --> 00:33:04,330 world is flat and then everybody's you 664 00:33:08,700 --> 00:33:05,679 know there's a discussion then I start 665 00:33:10,770 --> 00:33:08,710 getting mentions and you know people 666 00:33:12,390 --> 00:33:10,780 thinking that oh there's something that 667 00:33:15,660 --> 00:33:12,400 you didn't think about and you know 668 00:33:18,750 --> 00:33:15,670 point it out but I just got an email I 669 00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:18,760 think a week ago from a random person 670 00:33:22,169 --> 00:33:20,530 that read the article and decided to 671 00:33:26,310 --> 00:33:22,179 write to me and tell me exactly where I 672 00:33:28,700 --> 00:33:26,320 got it wrong and I think the first 673 00:33:33,450 --> 00:33:28,710 paragraph starts with like something 674 00:33:35,250 --> 00:33:33,460 atrociously wrong on its own yeah it's 675 00:33:37,830 --> 00:33:35,260 just it just happens I just stopped 676 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:37,840 answering honestly it's it just stopped 677 00:33:40,150 --> 00:33:38,650 being worth it 678 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:40,160 who to 679 00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:43,010 just waste time answering yeah I I know 680 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:45,170 what you mean I mean it's important for 681 00:33:49,450 --> 00:33:47,450 people like you and me and all skeptics 682 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:49,460 to see what other people think what they 683 00:33:54,220 --> 00:33:51,890 write but then there comes a stage where 684 00:33:56,290 --> 00:33:54,230 I think it does your sanity a lot of 685 00:34:01,210 --> 00:33:56,300 harm to keep reading the drivel you know 686 00:34:03,850 --> 00:34:01,220 and some of its just confused hardly 687 00:34:06,580 --> 00:34:03,860 intelligible drivel really yeah and and 688 00:34:08,590 --> 00:34:06,590 you know what I started reading the the 689 00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:08,600 email and it was very clear to me from 690 00:34:13,270 --> 00:34:10,850 the start that he didn't actually read 691 00:34:16,060 --> 00:34:13,280 the article so if you know sometimes I 692 00:34:17,940 --> 00:34:16,070 get questions from maybe you could see 693 00:34:21,070 --> 00:34:17,950 that it's like a kid or someone who's 694 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:21,080 genuinely confused and then maybe I'll 695 00:34:25,570 --> 00:34:23,810 answer and I'll participate but that 696 00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:25,580 that email you could see that they 697 00:34:29,500 --> 00:34:27,770 clearly didn't read anything oh this way 698 00:34:31,930 --> 00:34:29,510 okay yeah we just where are we we're on 699 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:31,940 the corner of well Indian Market Street 700 00:34:37,930 --> 00:34:34,850 Kearney and something else crossing over 701 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:37,940 it's a nice winter's day here in San 702 00:34:40,780 --> 00:34:40,370 Francisco it's Cleveland there's a chill 703 00:34:43,900 --> 00:34:40,790 in the air 704 00:34:46,750 --> 00:34:43,910 anyway I'm glad I've had the opportunity 705 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:46,760 to meet up with you once again Mario 706 00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:49,490 because and I'm really looking forward 707 00:34:52,570 --> 00:34:50,210 to this 708 00:34:55,870 --> 00:34:52,580 you have probably one of the most 709 00:35:00,010 --> 00:34:55,880 interesting jobs I can think about and 710 00:35:03,460 --> 00:35:00,020 also best let you describe what you do 711 00:35:06,250 --> 00:35:03,470 so I'm a software engineer and I lead 712 00:35:09,310 --> 00:35:06,260 two teams the technical teams there we 713 00:35:11,860 --> 00:35:09,320 commedia Foundation and we operate a 714 00:35:14,830 --> 00:35:11,870 small website that you may have heard 715 00:35:18,550 --> 00:35:14,840 about maybe you've used that sometimes 716 00:35:21,430 --> 00:35:18,560 called Wikipedia well what's a wiki what 717 00:35:23,590 --> 00:35:21,440 what a wickedly of course well that's 718 00:35:26,710 --> 00:35:23,600 impressive my goodness me I mean I use 719 00:35:28,990 --> 00:35:26,720 it frequently and I must say frequently 720 00:35:31,240 --> 00:35:29,000 it's full of people saying the Earth's 721 00:35:35,260 --> 00:35:31,250 flat by the way it does have those 722 00:35:37,390 --> 00:35:35,270 occasionally but thankfully they need to 723 00:35:39,730 --> 00:35:37,400 bring citations to everything they say 724 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:39,740 and that's where they fail ah and we 725 00:35:43,310 --> 00:35:41,690 hear that more and more so it's a 726 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:43,320 citation needed 727 00:35:48,620 --> 00:35:46,290 yes that is the tenant I think that you 728 00:35:52,340 --> 00:35:48,630 know the Wikipedia exists on right like 729 00:35:54,650 --> 00:35:52,350 everything needs to be cited and you 730 00:35:58,340 --> 00:35:54,660 know well established so that everybody 731 00:36:01,960 --> 00:35:58,350 can enjoy actual information and not 732 00:36:04,190 --> 00:36:01,970 just opinions or guessing around so 733 00:36:07,940 --> 00:36:04,200 walking along we're just on the corner 734 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:07,950 of Kearny and post if people are 735 00:36:12,110 --> 00:36:09,890 following us on their map on their 736 00:36:13,370 --> 00:36:12,120 Google map maybe I don't know because we 737 00:36:15,710 --> 00:36:13,380 were just chatting about giant 738 00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:15,720 software's and internet corporations 739 00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:18,090 before Google and Facebook and and 740 00:36:24,260 --> 00:36:22,530 what-have-you and yes a few people 741 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:24,270 downtown it's not like the big tourist 742 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:27,930 season no at the moment and so your 743 00:36:32,780 --> 00:36:29,370 office is down the street 'old away 744 00:36:36,260 --> 00:36:32,790 that's it this is it this is aqua we're 745 00:36:40,370 --> 00:36:36,270 right here as we turn into the post 746 00:36:46,530 --> 00:36:43,490 through the glass doors thank you oh 747 00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:46,540 that's nice and now we're gonna go up 748 00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:49,450 the elevator this day just gets better 749 00:36:55,860 --> 00:36:52,210 and better I know it's a very complex 750 00:36:59,730 --> 00:36:55,870 entrance through a door into elevators 751 00:37:05,060 --> 00:36:59,740 ooh a swipe card this is this tells you 752 00:37:12,030 --> 00:37:08,850 I think moved here two years ago a year 753 00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:12,040 ago and the elevators don't have buttons 754 00:37:16,020 --> 00:37:14,170 I don't know if you can see that there's 755 00:37:18,270 --> 00:37:16,030 no buttons no there's door opening 756 00:37:18,900 --> 00:37:18,280 buttons and emergency button but that's 757 00:37:20,730 --> 00:37:18,910 about it 758 00:37:23,100 --> 00:37:20,740 yeah that's because they read your card 759 00:37:26,700 --> 00:37:23,110 and they decide where to go for better 760 00:37:29,220 --> 00:37:26,710 or worse so you can't pop down to 761 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:29,230 another floor to see someone no no 762 00:37:35,010 --> 00:37:33,370 unless you have the access card this is 763 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:35,020 this is getting to be a little bit too 764 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:41,050 high-tech around here there it is we can 765 00:37:45,210 --> 00:37:43,210 media foundation how about that all 766 00:37:49,630 --> 00:37:45,220 right we'll go in and we'll continue in 767 00:37:55,370 --> 00:37:52,370 just had me the tour of the the 768 00:37:57,470 --> 00:37:55,380 Wikimedia here in San Francisco and lots 769 00:37:59,600 --> 00:37:57,480 of very friendly people was fascinating 770 00:38:02,450 --> 00:37:59,610 and we're up what fifteen stories I 771 00:38:04,340 --> 00:38:02,460 think 1616 and we'll just sit down a 772 00:38:08,450 --> 00:38:04,350 little little private corner here with a 773 00:38:11,510 --> 00:38:08,460 giant window overlooking downtown San 774 00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:11,520 Francisco and it's just mesmerizing I've 775 00:38:15,470 --> 00:38:13,050 never I've never been up high in a 776 00:38:18,620 --> 00:38:15,480 building in San Francisco and I noticed 777 00:38:20,210 --> 00:38:18,630 walking around almost everybody has a 778 00:38:22,220 --> 00:38:20,220 million-dollar view to look out of the 779 00:38:25,430 --> 00:38:22,230 window how on earth do you concentrate 780 00:38:28,670 --> 00:38:25,440 on doing wiki work I know I think that 781 00:38:31,730 --> 00:38:28,680 we look out the window a lot it's 782 00:38:34,750 --> 00:38:31,740 important yes doing it now you're right 783 00:38:37,430 --> 00:38:34,760 here but I keep craning my neck over wow 784 00:38:38,930 --> 00:38:37,440 how much to take a picture there's a bus 785 00:38:40,430 --> 00:38:38,940 for your health though when you work a 786 00:38:41,870 --> 00:38:40,440 lot on the computer to kind of shift 787 00:38:44,150 --> 00:38:41,880 your view for a couple of minutes 788 00:38:46,070 --> 00:38:44,160 outside and then go back so that's a 789 00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:46,080 very good thing that we have those those 790 00:38:50,300 --> 00:38:48,330 big windows here I will say though I 791 00:38:52,730 --> 00:38:50,310 might share is very close to one of 792 00:38:55,490 --> 00:38:52,740 those windows and at first there was no 793 00:38:57,860 --> 00:38:55,500 there's like a safety bar here where we 794 00:38:59,630 --> 00:38:57,870 said but there's a couple of windows 795 00:39:00,740 --> 00:38:59,640 that don't have that safety bar and I 796 00:39:02,810 --> 00:39:00,750 have to say it makes all the difference 797 00:39:04,250 --> 00:39:02,820 because if you don't notice for a minute 798 00:39:06,020 --> 00:39:04,260 you don't look you know at the window 799 00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:06,030 and then some of you do look a little 800 00:39:10,310 --> 00:39:08,850 down your heart jumps about like you 801 00:39:12,380 --> 00:39:10,320 know just the the height that where you 802 00:39:13,550 --> 00:39:12,390 are yeah well it's quite staggering we 803 00:39:15,860 --> 00:39:13,560 were sitting in a comfortable chair 804 00:39:17,660 --> 00:39:15,870 there's a question and I'm leaning over 805 00:39:20,240 --> 00:39:17,670 now and I can almost see straight down 806 00:39:22,250 --> 00:39:20,250 but I'm not getting the sense of its 807 00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:22,260 because of the bar if we go to a window 808 00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:24,570 without a bar isn't that interesting 809 00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:26,490 isn't that interesting it's not to start 810 00:39:31,730 --> 00:39:27,930 screaming at you that there's nothing to 811 00:39:34,220 --> 00:39:31,740 hold on to so please tell tell the 812 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:34,230 audience a little bit about what you do 813 00:39:39,710 --> 00:39:37,490 here at Wikimedia so I lead two teams 814 00:39:42,290 --> 00:39:39,720 I'm a technical lead of the 815 00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:42,300 anti-harassment tools team so we are 816 00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:45,090 working as the name sounds we're working 817 00:39:49,550 --> 00:39:47,370 on giving tools to make sure that the 818 00:39:51,410 --> 00:39:49,560 experience of editors and users in 819 00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:51,420 general all of our websites including 820 00:39:57,050 --> 00:39:55,290 Wikipedia is is much better and that 821 00:39:59,540 --> 00:39:57,060 we're giving the proper tools to enable 822 00:40:00,740 --> 00:39:59,550 and like the social changes that are 823 00:40:03,829 --> 00:40:00,750 needed 824 00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:03,839 and the other team is the community tech 825 00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:09,210 team so we run every year a wish list 826 00:40:16,309 --> 00:40:12,810 where users of all of our projects can 827 00:40:17,660 --> 00:40:16,319 go in and kind of suggest features that 828 00:40:19,490 --> 00:40:17,670 they want or suggest that kind of 829 00:40:21,109 --> 00:40:19,500 projects that they want and there's a 830 00:40:22,609 --> 00:40:21,119 you know wish list 831 00:40:23,839 --> 00:40:22,619 period of time where they suggest and 832 00:40:26,210 --> 00:40:23,849 then a period of time where they vote 833 00:40:30,050 --> 00:40:26,220 and then that you know usually we get 834 00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:30,060 about the top 10 that we implement for 835 00:40:34,130 --> 00:40:31,290 them and make their life easier 836 00:40:37,010 --> 00:40:34,140 hopefully mm-hmm well listeners to the 837 00:40:39,290 --> 00:40:37,020 skip exam well no and because she's on 838 00:40:41,329 --> 00:40:39,300 this very episode of course susan gerbic 839 00:40:45,740 --> 00:40:41,339 from guerrilla skepticism on wikipedia 840 00:40:47,540 --> 00:40:45,750 and she's a lady who didn't know what 841 00:40:49,220 --> 00:40:47,550 would happen in her life and she got 842 00:40:51,710 --> 00:40:49,230 stuck into Wikipedia and it's really 843 00:40:54,740 --> 00:40:51,720 transformed her life but Wikipedia 844 00:40:58,670 --> 00:40:54,750 itself is it's enormous isn't it it's 845 00:41:01,309 --> 00:40:58,680 just it's hard to comprehend the scope 846 00:41:03,260 --> 00:41:01,319 of Wikipedia yeah we have so I think a 847 00:41:05,690 --> 00:41:03,270 lot of people don't know that we have we 848 00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:05,700 support I'm hoping not to get that 849 00:41:10,940 --> 00:41:07,530 number of wrong but it's about 380 850 00:41:12,740 --> 00:41:10,950 languages and each one of those 851 00:41:14,210 --> 00:41:12,750 languages is its own community so it's 852 00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:14,220 not like we have one community that then 853 00:41:18,050 --> 00:41:16,290 translates its like each one so Spanish 854 00:41:19,730 --> 00:41:18,060 Wikipedia is its own community English 855 00:41:23,180 --> 00:41:19,740 Wikipedia is its own community that have 856 00:41:24,650 --> 00:41:23,190 its own rules and stuff like that and on 857 00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:24,660 top of that we don't have to just have 858 00:41:29,599 --> 00:41:27,690 Wikipedia we also have ten other 859 00:41:32,660 --> 00:41:29,609 projects which I'm going to forget some 860 00:41:34,700 --> 00:41:32,670 now but we have Wiki Commons which is 861 00:41:37,940 --> 00:41:34,710 where you know free images freely 862 00:41:40,609 --> 00:41:37,950 license image I use that yeah if if if 863 00:41:43,490 --> 00:41:40,619 you go to skip exam dot TV and scroll to 864 00:41:45,829 --> 00:41:43,500 the bottom of this the page for this 865 00:41:47,660 --> 00:41:45,839 podcast you'll see a couple of origami 866 00:41:49,010 --> 00:41:47,670 images that I put up but people can 867 00:41:50,690 --> 00:41:49,020 download and their own wiki Commons 868 00:41:52,940 --> 00:41:50,700 which is a convenient place to put them 869 00:41:54,530 --> 00:41:52,950 yeah and it's part of our thing of 870 00:41:57,319 --> 00:41:54,540 sharing knowledge sharing images and 871 00:42:00,920 --> 00:41:57,329 free images so every Commons we have 872 00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:00,930 things like Wiktionary which is the free 873 00:42:04,970 --> 00:42:02,970 dictionary we have wikispecies we have a 874 00:42:09,589 --> 00:42:04,980 key books we have a key source so we 875 00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:09,599 have about 11 projects and almost each 876 00:42:14,299 --> 00:42:13,410 one of them has 380 languages so overall 877 00:42:16,819 --> 00:42:14,309 we have about nine 878 00:42:21,319 --> 00:42:16,829 hundred websites that we are kind of 879 00:42:24,079 --> 00:42:21,329 operating each basically their own more 880 00:42:26,539 --> 00:42:24,089 or less their own community with well so 881 00:42:29,660 --> 00:42:26,549 it's very very big and you were telling 882 00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:29,670 me before that this whole place much 883 00:42:34,910 --> 00:42:32,130 like the skeptic zone I hasten to to say 884 00:42:36,739 --> 00:42:34,920 couldn't exist without donations and 885 00:42:38,660 --> 00:42:36,749 contributions we are a hundred percent 886 00:42:41,660 --> 00:42:38,670 donation based yes that's a hundred 887 00:42:44,209 --> 00:42:41,670 percent amazing yeah you know if people 888 00:42:47,329 --> 00:42:44,219 think of the scope of what Wikipedia we 889 00:42:49,429 --> 00:42:47,339 can media do it's mind-blowing and and 890 00:42:51,439 --> 00:42:49,439 it's because of the the support from the 891 00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:51,449 community a hundred percent yeah we have 892 00:42:54,679 --> 00:42:53,130 a promise to our users that way because 893 00:42:57,609 --> 00:42:54,689 once you stop using donations if you 894 00:43:00,349 --> 00:42:57,619 start using you know commercials or ads 895 00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:00,359 then the question about how much you're 896 00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:02,729 biased comes in right like because if 897 00:43:06,439 --> 00:43:05,130 someone pays for you know to put stuff 898 00:43:07,999 --> 00:43:06,449 on their content then maybe they don't 899 00:43:09,589 --> 00:43:08,009 like something you'll start editing for 900 00:43:12,589 --> 00:43:09,599 them and stuff like that so we have a 901 00:43:14,660 --> 00:43:12,599 promise to not ever do that and we're 902 00:43:17,509 --> 00:43:14,670 100% donation based that's fantastic 903 00:43:19,069 --> 00:43:17,519 because I as listeners now on the 904 00:43:21,169 --> 00:43:19,079 skeptics and there are commercial breaks 905 00:43:24,739 --> 00:43:21,179 every between every report and every 906 00:43:27,140 --> 00:43:24,749 segment you'll hear and bad but I'll say 907 00:43:29,569 --> 00:43:27,150 I don't I don't take a dime for those 908 00:43:30,799 --> 00:43:29,579 they're they're just I play those 909 00:43:32,209 --> 00:43:30,809 because I think they're the sort of 910 00:43:33,919 --> 00:43:32,219 things that people should know about and 911 00:43:37,189 --> 00:43:33,929 I like to support other podcasts first 912 00:43:40,489 --> 00:43:37,199 on and if people then decide to send 913 00:43:41,689 --> 00:43:40,499 their money to another podcast but no 914 00:43:46,039 --> 00:43:41,699 it's because I think it's the right 915 00:43:47,989 --> 00:43:46,049 thing to do yeah yeah yeah no we are and 916 00:43:49,579 --> 00:43:47,999 and I think the important thing to kind 917 00:43:53,479 --> 00:43:49,589 of like remember also is that Wikipedia 918 00:43:55,189 --> 00:43:53,489 and again all the other websites they 919 00:43:56,689 --> 00:43:55,199 are run by the volunteers all over the 920 00:43:58,689 --> 00:43:56,699 world so what the Wikimedia Foundation 921 00:44:01,069 --> 00:43:58,699 is doing is supporting those communities 922 00:44:03,259 --> 00:44:01,079 and a lot of the employees here 923 00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:03,269 including me we are volunteers also in 924 00:44:07,579 --> 00:44:05,249 our like you know volunteer time like 925 00:44:09,529 --> 00:44:07,589 you know I do edit but that is my in my 926 00:44:12,589 --> 00:44:09,539 private capacity like you know as part 927 00:44:13,999 --> 00:44:12,599 of staff here we are not responsible for 928 00:44:15,859 --> 00:44:14,009 content we're not responding we're not 929 00:44:17,660 --> 00:44:15,869 touching those this is you know the 930 00:44:18,709 --> 00:44:17,670 communities do that we are responsible 931 00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:18,719 to make sure that they have the tools 932 00:44:22,039 --> 00:44:20,130 that they need that they have the 933 00:44:24,229 --> 00:44:22,049 support that they need that you know 934 00:44:25,430 --> 00:44:24,239 they're empowered to do that to make 935 00:44:27,349 --> 00:44:25,440 sure that our mission 936 00:44:29,359 --> 00:44:27,359 you know comes true will keep the 937 00:44:32,450 --> 00:44:29,369 backend going right that's right no no 938 00:44:34,910 --> 00:44:32,460 no wow how fascinating how lucky am I to 939 00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:34,920 get a little tour of this amazing place 940 00:44:38,750 --> 00:44:37,050 and again you know I'm not being rude 941 00:44:42,410 --> 00:44:38,760 but we keep looking out the window both 942 00:44:45,050 --> 00:44:42,420 of us because there goes the tram the F 943 00:44:46,819 --> 00:44:45,060 the F line yeah yeah there it goes so 944 00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:46,829 the waters down that way oh there's the 945 00:44:49,940 --> 00:44:48,450 hobart building i know that yes I've 946 00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:49,950 walked up and down there many many times 947 00:44:54,859 --> 00:44:52,890 and I met you for lunch right there 948 00:44:58,460 --> 00:44:54,869 right there and I can see near the 949 00:45:00,290 --> 00:44:58,470 escalator fantastic memorial again well 950 00:45:02,420 --> 00:45:00,300 it's such a treat to see you 951 00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:02,430 again because we're old friends since 952 00:45:07,059 --> 00:45:04,170 you stuck a pie in my face many years 953 00:45:10,460 --> 00:45:07,069 ago we were just remembering that fight 954 00:45:12,890 --> 00:45:10,470 and thank you for giving me a little to 955 00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:12,900 of Wikimedia oh my pleasure 956 00:45:23,150 --> 00:45:14,090 thank you for coming 957 00:45:28,530 --> 00:45:26,400 hello and Allah needle on solo scoffs of 958 00:45:30,900 --> 00:45:28,540 did moments been to an atlas an outer 959 00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:30,910 skeptic zone for weed to stop and Katie 960 00:45:41,340 --> 00:45:35,530 snide anchor a meeting for Marcy fauna 961 00:45:47,030 --> 00:45:42,230 [Applause] 962 00:45:55,670 --> 00:45:49,410 that looks good enough to eat 963 00:46:03,690 --> 00:45:55,680 or does it here's the diet skeptic 964 00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:03,700 mandelino ball hello skeptic zone 965 00:46:20,190 --> 00:46:16,620 Mandee Lee noble here this week I have 966 00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:20,200 an extra mini report for you where I'm 967 00:46:25,140 --> 00:46:22,450 going to share a news item from The 968 00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:25,150 Sunday Telegraph which is printed in 969 00:46:31,590 --> 00:46:29,170 Sydney Australia the news article is 970 00:46:33,870 --> 00:46:31,600 from Jane Hansen who was this year's 971 00:46:37,890 --> 00:46:33,880 winner of the inaugural barry williams 972 00:46:40,980 --> 00:46:37,900 award for skeptical journalism the 973 00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:40,990 report is on barber o'neill naturopath 974 00:46:47,250 --> 00:46:43,690 and the wife of infamous anti bats 975 00:46:49,700 --> 00:46:47,260 campaigner Michael O'Neill Barbour 976 00:46:52,890 --> 00:46:49,710 O'Neill is being investigated for 977 00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:52,900 dangerous recommendations for infant 978 00:46:59,390 --> 00:46:55,770 feeding cancer care and immunization I 979 00:47:02,460 --> 00:46:59,400 will now read to you from Jane's article 980 00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:02,470 naturopaths cancer healing claims under 981 00:47:07,710 --> 00:47:03,850 the microscope 982 00:47:10,260 --> 00:47:07,720 a naturopath who charges as much as 983 00:47:12,750 --> 00:47:10,270 three thousand one hundred dollars a 984 00:47:15,720 --> 00:47:12,760 week for health retreats is under 985 00:47:17,700 --> 00:47:15,730 investigation by the health watchdog for 986 00:47:20,850 --> 00:47:17,710 allegedly making false claims about 987 00:47:23,580 --> 00:47:20,860 cancer and vaccinations Barber O'Neill 988 00:47:26,910 --> 00:47:23,590 who is described on her misty mountain 989 00:47:30,660 --> 00:47:26,920 health retreat website as a world-famous 990 00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:30,670 health lecturer may be in breach of the 991 00:47:35,250 --> 00:47:33,130 health care complaints commissions code 992 00:47:38,220 --> 00:47:35,260 of conduct for unread 993 00:47:42,540 --> 00:47:38,230 Stud health practitioners unlike doctors 994 00:47:45,420 --> 00:47:42,550 naturopaths are unregistered and only 995 00:47:48,240 --> 00:47:45,430 covered by a code of conduct under the 996 00:47:52,050 --> 00:47:48,250 code a health practitioner must not make 997 00:47:54,450 --> 00:47:52,060 claims either directly or in advertising 998 00:47:57,470 --> 00:47:54,460 or promotional material about the 999 00:48:00,000 --> 00:47:57,480 efficacy of treatments or services 1000 00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:00,010 provided if those claims cannot be 1001 00:48:06,240 --> 00:48:02,370 substantiated the Sunday Telegraph 1002 00:48:08,850 --> 00:48:06,250 understands the HCC SI launched an 1003 00:48:11,910 --> 00:48:08,860 investigation after receiving numerous 1004 00:48:13,710 --> 00:48:11,920 complaints from concerned citizens and 1005 00:48:16,470 --> 00:48:13,720 registered health practitioners 1006 00:48:19,590 --> 00:48:16,480 complaints allege that miss O'Neill 1007 00:48:23,540 --> 00:48:19,600 treats cancer patients with bicarbonate 1008 00:48:28,290 --> 00:48:23,550 of soda wraps to alkalize the body and 1009 00:48:31,530 --> 00:48:28,300 recommends a diet to kill cancer so for 1010 00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:31,540 cancer it's no fruit for six weeks no 1011 00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:32,650 wheat for six weeks 1012 00:48:37,140 --> 00:48:35,050 very little carbohydrate so what did 1013 00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:37,150 they eat lots of legumes lots of 1014 00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:40,810 vegetables nuts and seeds she said in 1015 00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:44,770 one of her online videos miss O'Neill 1016 00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:47,610 claims in her numerous videos 1017 00:48:54,690 --> 00:48:50,530 presentations that antibiotics cause 1018 00:48:57,960 --> 00:48:54,700 cancer and the human body was designed 1019 00:49:01,920 --> 00:48:57,970 to heal itself and does not need to be 1020 00:49:04,890 --> 00:49:01,930 vaccinated she also claims neurotoxins 1021 00:49:09,780 --> 00:49:04,900 in vaccines have caused an epidemic of 1022 00:49:12,450 --> 00:49:09,790 ADHD autism epilepsy and Cod death there 1023 00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:12,460 is no scientific evidence for any of 1024 00:49:18,210 --> 00:49:16,090 these claims miss O'Neill runs the misty 1025 00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:18,220 mountain health retreat at Bellbrook 1026 00:49:23,550 --> 00:49:20,650 near Kempsey with husband Michael 1027 00:49:27,780 --> 00:49:23,560 O'Neill who set up the involuntary 1028 00:49:32,580 --> 00:49:27,790 medication objectors party in 2015 and 1029 00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:32,590 the health Australia party in 2016 to 1030 00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:34,210 run in the federal election on a 1031 00:49:41,340 --> 00:49:36,970 platform against vaccination programs 1032 00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:41,350 and water fluoridation mr. O'Neill has 1033 00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:43,090 campaigned against The Sunday Telegraph 1034 00:49:47,890 --> 00:49:46,690 no jab no play and no job no pay 1035 00:49:51,700 --> 00:49:47,900 campaigns 1036 00:49:53,799 --> 00:49:51,710 on her website miss O'Neal advises 1037 00:49:56,799 --> 00:49:53,809 mothers who cannot breastfeed to avoid 1038 00:50:00,069 --> 00:49:56,809 infant formula in favor of almond milk 1039 00:50:02,650 --> 00:50:00,079 blended with dates or banana she advises 1040 00:50:06,370 --> 00:50:02,660 not to feed solids or grains until a 1041 00:50:08,559 --> 00:50:06,380 child smylazar in professor Jane Scott 1042 00:50:11,140 --> 00:50:08,569 who co-authored the National Health and 1043 00:50:13,809 --> 00:50:11,150 Medical Research Council's Australian 1044 00:50:16,089 --> 00:50:13,819 infant feeding guidelines said such 1045 00:50:20,289 --> 00:50:16,099 substitutes for breast milk or infant 1046 00:50:23,259 --> 00:50:20,299 formula were definitely not safe there 1047 00:50:26,069 --> 00:50:23,269 is a real danger here for infants and 1048 00:50:29,859 --> 00:50:26,079 C's will not support healthy growth and 1049 00:50:35,910 --> 00:50:29,869 development professor Scott said miss 1050 00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:58,329 nice work Jane and bye for now skeptics 1051 00:51:04,460 --> 00:51:01,099 thank you for listening to the skeptic 1052 00:51:09,410 --> 00:51:04,470 zone now coming up this week in Sydney 1053 00:51:12,020 --> 00:51:09,420 on the 10th of January skeptics in the 1054 00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:12,030 pub at the Occidental hotel and it's an 1055 00:51:20,510 --> 00:51:16,890 open mic night I might be there 1056 00:51:22,250 --> 00:51:20,520 I might not I'm not sure I am in San 1057 00:51:23,599 --> 00:51:22,260 Francisco in the United States here for 1058 00:51:28,130 --> 00:51:23,609 a little while longer than anticipated 1059 00:51:30,710 --> 00:51:28,140 but life can be strange enjoying the 1060 00:51:33,650 --> 00:51:30,720 cool weather of course nevertheless if 1061 00:51:34,849 --> 00:51:33,660 you are in Sydney the 10th of January is 1062 00:51:37,279 --> 00:51:34,859 the date you should head for the 1063 00:51:41,089 --> 00:51:37,289 Occidental hotel just near Wynyard 1064 00:51:44,809 --> 00:51:41,099 station for skeptics in the pub and open 1065 00:51:46,970 --> 00:51:44,819 mic night but for this week this is 1066 00:51:53,660 --> 00:51:46,980 Richard Saunders signing off from the 1067 00:51:55,700 --> 00:51:53,670 Bay Area San Francisco you've been 1068 00:52:02,630 --> 00:51:55,710 listening to the skeptic zone podcast 1069 00:52:05,089 --> 00:52:02,640 please visit our website at wwlp.com tax 1070 00:52:08,990 --> 00:52:05,099 and to access the bat catalog of 1071 00:52:10,849 --> 00:52:09,000 episodes going back to 2008 you can 1072 00:52:13,910 --> 00:52:10,859 follow the skeptic zone podcast on 1073 00:52:16,190 --> 00:52:13,920 twitter at skeptic zone visit our 1074 00:52:17,079 --> 00:52:16,200 facebook page or leave a review on 1075 00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:17,089 itunes 1076 00:52:23,150 --> 00:52:19,770 you can also support the skeptic zone 1077 00:52:25,870 --> 00:52:23,160 via patreon or PayPal the skeptic zone 1078 00:52:28,250 --> 00:52:25,880 podcast is an independent production 1079 00:52:30,349 --> 00:52:28,260 reviews and opinions expressed on the 1080 00:52:32,720 --> 00:52:30,359 skeptic zone are not necessarily those 1081 00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:32,730 of Australian skeptics or any other